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Re: IA letter IAG/045/13 對聯總6月13日真國聯總字第045號公文的回應

Content Format: 
Date recorded: 
2013.06.13

(中文在英文之后)

A. Returning to the facts:

  1. At 09h00 on 22nd March 2012, IA EXCO member Preacher YM Yang questioned the IA Financial Affairs officer, Elder FM Tse, concerning the funds for Congo. Seeing that FM Tse had some difficulty answering the questions, the chair of the meeting, YJ Lin, terminated the questioning (saying that it would be postponed until the end of the meeting).
  2. During the break at 10h30, chairman YJ Lin, acting in complete disregard of the church’s standard meeting procedures, hastily issued proposal no. 21 at the last minute. (Given that it had already been prepared well in advance, why did he not dare put it on the agenda beforehand? Was he worried that Preacher Yang would have enough time to present the evidence that would expose the lies in it?)
  3. At 13h30, chairman YJ Lin was so eager to discuss the proposal that he passed over the more than ten preceding proposals that had yet to be discussed and proceeded directly with the discussion of proposal 21. Several hours later, Preacher YM Yang was terminated. As a result, Preacher YM Yang was no longer able to query the Congo accounts during this meeting.
  4. In September 2012, a fabricated report concerning the accounts for French-speaking Africa (Congo) was issued in the IA newsletter.
  5. In April 2013, after being questioned by many brethren, the IA was forced to admit that there had been mistakes in the calculation of the Congo accounts.

 

B.An extract from Proposal 21:

“Proposal No. 21: To examine whether it is suitable for Preacher Yuh-Ming Yang to remain in his office as preacher (submitted by the Standing Committee).

Statement: Based on the necessities of its work, the IA has ordained IA preachers, whose main responsibilities are to: preach the truth in areas under the IA, pastor the believers, set up churches and edify the members…

In order to uphold the truth and maintain the system of organization of the church so as to strengthen the foundations of the church and edify the believers spiritually, the IA EXCO ought to examine whether it is suitable for Pr. Yang to continue in the office of IA preacher. Some of the relevant issues are highlighted below:”

 

Proposal 21 clearly states that the topic of discussion was whether it was suitable for Preacher YM Yang to continue in the office of IA preacher.
Yet the IA letter IAG/045/13 of 13th June underhandedly claims that YM Yang is no longer a preacher of the True Jesus Church, even though it is only IA (i.e., only one organization) that he is no longer a preacher of!  

C.Questions:

  1. The IA claims that there are over 1.5 million members worldwide in the True Jesus Church. Yet, of these, there are fewer than 80,000 members in total belonging to churches and organizations under the IA! By contrast, there are more than 1.4 million members in China, all belonging to the True Jesus Church: there are those from the northern and southern sections, those who belong neither to the northern nor southern sections and those from independent churches of the True Jesus Church! Which of the thousands of True Jesus Church preachers out of these 1.4 million people has had to be approved by the IA before becoming preachers of the True Jesus Church? (The same question applies even to preachers from Taiwan GA, USGA, Korea GA, etc., all of whom are under the IA.)
  2. The True Jesus Church of Paris, having been with Preacher YM Yang for over 20 years, knows him very well as a person and is highly familiar with the content of his teachings. Therefore, when Paris church received notice of the termination from the IA, she immediately saw through the lies in the proposal and at once sent out a letter asking for a commission of inquiry to be set up and stating that Preacher YM Yang had been appointed as a preacher of the True Jesus Church of Paris. He has been sent to continue the work in French-speaking Africa and has been invited to participate in the holy work and to conduct the sacraments in various True Jesus Churches. Are these True Jesus Churches, whose membership greatly exceeds that of the churches under IA, True Jesus Churches in God’s eyes?

D. A request:

The True Jesus Church bases all its decisions on the truth. Thus, in order to properly explain its position, the IA ought to change the concluding clause “jointly safeguard the institution and regulations of the church” (since these are made by men, they are subject to change) to “jointly safeguard the truth”. It should then issue a document clearly telling everyone: “The baptisms which Paris True Jesus Church sends Preacher YM Yang to conduct are ineffective and cannot remit one’s sins! Those who are baptized by him cannot be saved! All brethren and truth-seeking friends who have received the Holy Spirit through the laying on of the hands of Preacher YM Yang have not really received a spirit from God; it is another spirit! All the visions seen by brethren during the course of Preacher YM Yang’s work are not from God; they are the result of the deception of Satan!

 

Issuing such a document would make it much easier to discuss the question of whether a person is still a True Jesus Church preacher if he is no longer an IA preacher. If it chooses not to do this, could the IA stop issuing documents which only serve to tear apart the friendship between brethren and which only end up creating even more chaos!

 

E.Finally:

1. The chief priests, the scribes and the elders, seeing that the Lord Jesus had not first obtained their approval and had not been sent by them before He spoke in the temple,     performed miracles and cleansed the temple, were unhappy. As a result, they came to Him to ask, “By what authority are You doing these things? And who gave You this authority to do these things?” (Mk 11:27–28).

2. During the apostolic times, some people did not consider Paul to be an apostle since he had not been approved by them. Paul answered them as a fool, saying “I am more”!

3. May the Lord have mercy and preserve the churches of the True Jesus Church, all of whom are members of the body of the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen!

 

對聯總6月13日真國聯總字第045號公文(如附件)的回應  

 

A.   回到現場:

  1. 2012.03.22上午09h00聯總負責人楊昱民傳道質詢聯總財務部部負責車富銘長老有關剛果款項,主席林永基見車富銘有難,終止質詢(說延到會議最後再質詢)。
  2. 10h30休息時間,主席林永基完全不按照教會開會體制和規範,臨時發下編號21號的重大人事案(既然早就準備好了,為何不敢事先列入會議議程?擔心楊傳道有充分時間提出證據,揭穿謊言?),
  3. 13h30,主席林永基迫不及待的越過在前的十幾個尚未討論的提案,直接對21號案進行討論。幾個小時之後,將楊昱民傳道停職。楊昱民傳道也就不再能在本次會議中質詢帳目不清的剛果帳目。
  4. 2012.09聯總會訊發出假造的法語非洲剛果帳目。
  5. 2013.04聯總在眾同靈的質疑下,逼不得已承認剛果帳目作帳有誤。

 

B.節錄21號案,原字照抄:【請檢討楊昱民傳道是否適任傳道職案。(常務會 提) 說明: 聯總基於工作之需,在聯總體制下按立屬於聯總的傳道者,其主要職責為:在聯總體制內執行真道之宣揚、信徒之牧養,建立教會、造就信徒。… 基於維護真理及教會體制,以鞏固教會根基、造就信徒靈性,聯總負責人會應該審視楊傳道是否繼續適任為聯總的傳道者。以下略舉事例之大端。】   21號案很清楚:討論楊昱民傳道是否『繼續適任』為『聯總傳道』。   結果聯總6月13日真國聯總字第045號公文竟然將「不具『聯總』傳道職」(單一組織裡的編制)偷天換日為「不具『真耶穌教會』傳道職」!    

 

C.提問:

  1. 聯總宣稱真耶穌教會在全球至少有150萬以上的信徒。然而加入色彩偏南的聯總組織總人數不到8萬人!但同屬「真耶穌教會」的南派、北派和不南不北派以及各獨立運作的各支派之真耶穌教會,總人數超過140萬!請問這140萬人裡的數千位真耶穌教會傳道同工(甚至聯總體制下的台總,美總、韓總等傳道),哪一位是經過聯總同意才可以當「真耶穌教會」傳道的
  2. 與楊昱民傳道相處二十多年,最知楊昱民傳道為人和道理內容的巴黎真耶穌教會,在接獲聯總停職通知後,立刻看出議案內容的不實,馬上發函要求成立調查委員會並任命楊昱民傳道為巴黎「真耶穌教會」傳道,差往法語非洲繼續工作,受邀請參與各支派「真耶穌教會」的聖工及主持聖禮。請問這些人數遠遠超過聯總的真耶穌教會在神眼中是不是「真耶穌教會」?

 

D.一個要求:真耶穌教會一切以真理為依歸。為了徹底說明聯總的立場,建議聯總將公文最後「共同維護教會體制與規範(人所制訂,隨時可更改的)」改成「共同維護『真理』」)。並發文明白告訴四方:「巴黎真耶穌教會差派楊昱民傳道去執行的洗禮沒有赦罪功效!被洗者不能得救!眾同靈和慕道朋友在楊昱民傳道的按手中所得的聖靈,並不是出於神,是另外的靈!眾同靈在楊昱民傳道的工作中所見的異象,並不是出於神,是撒但的迷惑!」。   等這樣的文發出後,再來討論「不是『聯總傳道』就不是『真耶穌教會傳道』?」會更容易討論些。要不然,就請聯總不要再發一些只會更撕裂同靈情誼,只會製造更多紛亂的公文吧!  

 

E.最後:

1.公會的祭司長和文士及長老見主耶穌沒經過他們的認可、差派就在會堂和民間講道,行神蹟,潔淨聖殿,很不是滋味。於是前來質問:「你仗著什麼權柄做這些事?給你這權柄的是誰呢?」(可 11. 27-28)。

2.使徒時代一些人認為沒經過他們認可的保羅並不是使徒。保羅以狂話回答:「我更是!」。

3.求主憐憫、恩眷互為主耶穌基督身體的肢體的各支各派真耶穌教會。阿們!

 

 

主之愚僕 楊昱民  2013/6/13

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Author: 

問題在「出狀況」的聖職人員,不在平信徒! 當然是問題在於出狀況的聖職人員,但不是YM。是決策的聖職人員。 我想這也是rawls不願意面對的問題。 就我而言很簡單,也不用我再不在場,有錄音、錄影就好,爭議的兩方都在同一場和論述,而不是各自放話。聯總不要在用公文來教導人了啦!(沒用的啦) 今天和不流開會,事前提供許多議案,但是和不流站長臨時發下你rawls罪狀,永遠封鎖你的發言,並且不悔改(不再說YM壞話、不再引用神學論述只看聖經、不在...)你心服口服嗎?對照一下嘛!我相信你比我這貨車司機還有更多的學識、知識上的造就,怎麼連這都要我提醒。

Author: 

rawls says:「聯總公文的重點不在平信徒能否實施聖禮,

不要轉移焦點。 

Bwnj

問題是真正「出狀況」的聖職人員不是被人停職的楊昱民傳道,

而是聯總那些將他停職的傳道負責人,所以請Rawls 少說廢話,不要轉移焦點。 

現在教會出了什麼狀況知道嗎?

(1) 教會出現了Rawls這种人,教會能不出狀况嗎?

(2)聯總出現了林X基,車X銘,再加個柯某某.....等人.楊昱民傳道能不出狀況嗎?

(3)教會傳講的「五大教義」,奉行的「組織規章」其權威己凌駕「十誡」之上,教會能不出狀況嗎? 

(4) 教會的領導人本身可以不尊守神的「十誡」,卻要信徒以他們所發的公文當神的吩咐遵行,教會能不出狀況嗎?

(5)Rawls 把犯第七誡被法院判刑入嶽的唐台生的狀況都可以大言不慚的用來批判完全不同狀况,被迫害中的傳道人楊昱民,故意混淆視聽,敢亂講一通,教會能不出狀況嗎?

(6)聯總敢以謊言,假見證,造假的公文,製造不法的會議程序及手段將楊傳道停職,楊傳道能不出狀況嗎? 

(7)「聖禮」是屬神的,是神眼中聖潔之人才可行,「聖職人員」,也是神眼中聖潔的人才是,以此同理,出了狀况的教會組織,能不出現「出狀況」的聖職人員嗎?

(8)聯總公文:「停職之聖職人員不可執行聖禮或在禱告中按手」。Rawls說:「這公文並不是在談平信徒可否執行聖禮或按手,而是強調「停職」。
想盡及用盡一切的不法,已將楊傳道「停職」,不強調「停職」行嗎?廢話!

(9)Rawls 問:「初代教會有遭「停職」還替人施洗的例子嗎?」

答案當然是沒有,因為當時還沒有出現過敢不敬畏神,非法停止傳道人的職且禁止有聖靈的人替人施洗和按手的真耶穌教會國際聯合總會,那時教會的代領人裡,沒有林X基,車X銘,也沒有柯某某.........等人,教會裡沒有假公文的事發生,更沒有一個筆名叫Rawls的。

Rawls,有些事有些邏輯要用頭腦去分析才能明白。但神是個靈,所以敬拜祂的必須用心靈和誠實。以此同理,神家(教會)裡的事,也必須用你的心去思想才能明白,誠實的面對才不會再出狀況。

Author: 

同灵们,

请别怨恨Rawls,他是断章取义之下,被训练出来的,毫无理智可言的可怜受害人之一!

所以Rawls所展示的,是越来越没有理智的推论。

Rawls所用的天枰,缺少神圣灵的印证。

所以在Rawls的天枰上,你不会看到神的公平,公义与怜悯!

Rawls在天枰一边放了六两铁,在另一边放了十六两的肉,Rawls的天枰还是纹风不动处于平衡的水平!

我所看到的「問題教師」,都是因为凭证据证明他们所犯的过错,经过校方的评审证实之后,才被学校开除的。

这怎能跟『制造谎言,制造假证据,没有经过公平的评审就免黜职分』相提并论呢?

Rawls啊!你厚颜无耻!骂你都不值得!

你们如果要恨的,应该是恨那制造断章取义后面的那一把黑手!

所以别愤恨,即使会有,也化悲愤为爱的力量,努力扑灭『断章取义的毛病』吧!

[quote=rawls]

連管飯食的事務工作也經推舉與按手

腓利原是「管理飯食」(直譯是「服事桌子」,桌子也指處理錢財之地

,故屬安排財政、負責全教會物資分配之工作),但即使是這樣事務性

的工作,都要經教會推舉及使徒「按手」(徒六6),豈是自稱我是神所

「差派」,不受「人」差派?

[/quote]

既然腓利管理飯食的"執事"(服事)之工是人的推舉與受權,於神的差派無關,你為什麼要混為一談,不按正意解經? 除非你認為使徒「按手」= 神的差派?

 

[quote=rawls] 

初代教會有遭「停職」還替人施洗的例子嗎?

耶路撒冷母會得知後,是差遣彼得、約翰來支持、肯定腓利的工作,

而不是把腓利「停職」。初代教會有遭「停職」,還大膽實施聖禮的例

子嗎?

 [/quote]

 初代教會有信徒被一個教會"受職" (注意是教會不是神),然後又被同教會"停職"嗎? 沒有的話,你作此假設用意為何? 腓利在外邦地的工作,按照路加的記載,已經不是"執事"(服事)的工作,而都是傳道替人受洗的工作,消息也是後來才傳到耶路撒冷,所以根本沒人差派過他, 更沒有人可以把腓利「停職」! (你作此假設又用意為何?)因此如果有人說腓利可以替人施洗,是因為他曾經在耶路撒冷教會當過"執事",已不是按正意解經,而是把真耶穌教會那套不符合聖經的"終身並跨教會"的執事制度讀進聖經。

 

rawls, 你喜歡批評別人扭曲聖經原意,憑私意發揮、引申,你自己有按正意解經嗎? 先去掉你自己眼中的樑木吧! 還有請你不要再借題發揮 (我早已提醒過,你卻寫了兩個長篇大論回應我幾個簡單的問題,也不是第一次了),只會賣弄你那讓人自高的知識來批評他人; 如果你有愛的話,說點造就人的話吧! 不要再濫用我在此給你的發言權吧! (如果HBL是屬總會的,我想你早已被無聲無息的踢出去了)      

Daniel

 

PS。其實只要仔細思考使徒行傳的記載,不難看出腓利的工作是從被人差派的"執事"(只在耶路撒冷做)轉變成被聖靈親自差派的"傳道" (在外邦之地)。 

 

最後丟一個問題讓大家思考: 為什麼在撒馬利亞被腓利受洗的人都沒有受聖靈說靈言? 有沒有可能腓利知道要受聖靈說靈言,卻沒有傳? 如果有可能,那今天"原則上"一個人要受聖靈說靈言是不是有一個先決條件?

Author: 

#受聖靈差派? 受教會差派?

 [ 13:2-3]

他們事奉主、禁食的時候,聖靈說:「要為我分派巴拿巴和掃羅,去做我召他們所做的工。」於是禁食禱告,按手在他們頭上,就打發他們去了。

 

這樣是否表示受聖靈差派後,還須受教會按手差派才算。如果不是,那麼任何人說自己是受聖靈的差派,我們都須接受嗎?或是需有何憑證才算?像摩門教的先知也自稱受聖靈差派,我們為何不接受?

 

 

腓利知道要受聖靈說靈言,卻沒有傳,所以撒馬利亞被腓利受洗的人都沒有受聖靈說靈言?

 

彼得還沒有傳要受聖靈說靈言,但哥尼流一家尚未受洗的人卻就都受聖靈說靈言,為何如此?教會也有很多類似的見證,小弟就碰到過幾個,有人受聖靈嚇一跳,一直拉旁邊的人問:「我的舌頭怎麼了?」;有人第一次進教會,在大門得聖靈;有人第一次來在唱詩時得聖靈,這些人都不知道也沒見過聖靈(禱告)。

 所以小弟覺得先決條件就是:「神要賜聖靈給他」,不管他知不知道聖靈,也不管它有沒有求(當然大多數的人有求才得)。

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