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I have not known much about the history of TJC but often heard that Paul Wei received important revelations while Barnabas fell due to his pride. Reading this journal (assuming it it is credible), Paul Wei does not sound to be reliable. Are his revelations credible then? What about the doctrines based on his revelations?
Thank you all! Look forward to reading your thoughts!
Dear Truth_seeker, The questions you asked were also some of the questions I had after reading the journal of Pr Barnabas (i like to call him a preacher because he was really preaching the gospel as guided by the Holy Spirit)! I am starting to think that Paul Wei was actually a false prophet (eg he preached that Lord Jesus would come again between 4-5 years time) and it is possible he wanted to break away from the church he was attending because he wanted to solicit money to help with his debt issue. The church he was attending had all the same doctrines as TJC except they baptised people facing upward. Therefore, in order to be different, Paul Wei started to preach that God told him to baptise facing downward and that he was baptised by God Himself. Was Paul Wei baptised in the name of our Lord Jesus as God instructed Barnabas Zhang in 1911? I don't think so! Is it according to the bible that Paul Wei was not baptised by another person? I don't think so either! Could there be a reason why Paul Wei died so early in 1919, two years after he started the 'correctional church of all nations'? (He didn't use the term 'TJC' in the beginning at all) Possibly! Mind you, i'm NOT saying it is wrong to baptise facing downward (TJC today likes to say 'head bowed' which is not exactly as 'face downward' either) and personally I found no biblical support for the necessity to baptise facing downward. Many can argue that Paul was not talking about physical likeness in Romans 6 and even if he was, Lord Jesus was buried facing upward, so which one should we follow? Again, I do not object to baptism facing downward but i've found it really hard to convince people. Would that affect TJC's status as the only true church? I don't think so and i believe if there is any other churches out there that believe in the same doctrines of salvation as we do,, then we can still be united under the same fold like how our church in Congo was started! The following questions are worth paying special attention to when reading the journal: 1. What exactly did God reveal to Barnabas Zhang and were they biblical? 2. What was the purpose of God's baptising Barnabas with the Holy Spirit? (in 1910) I've found the answers to these questions are very much in line with the Bible. Barnabas was called like Abraham to leave his own household and he believed by faith. He was baptised by the Holy Spirit for the same reason as the apostles so that he could preach the Gospel and witness for Christ. Also bear in mind that God revealed to him the need to baptise in the name of Jesus and to keep the 'Sabbath' (not 'Sabbath day') between 1911-1912, before God told him to start a church called "True Jesus Church" in 1912. I also wondered if God told him to keep the sacrament of foot-washing but couldn't find the answer in his journal. Does anyone know? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear 一滴水, I also found the other resources you mentioned on the internet and was planning on posting the book written by Barnabas' son about TJC history after people have read this journal. btw, the author of this electronic version of the journal says this version is the original version published in 1929. I also found another version on the internet: https://6d67404e-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/gopherlab/99sh...傳道記-張巴拿巴.doc?attachauth=ANoY7cpGJUJdSPrOIIb-aK3z-k8YWEdx-WIGVjzUaD7WwGqPT0Aus4XLcpR2KACccRkjh7mqWlvksHZ-FnLWICx9c08oPatvtAxPz-v_xMQEurVQHDJFxPlW6MWNuijk6AIgU9pmgM8dsYqhP6y-y0qGJwTqw5VrRLVSXro67duZaI1FGaYFvPnpGkoxczszjS-3PH_k0VNu-3VDwH435HVyqYFWENzKZ-8Axt7XBZxTDJfwg9R5bJPof7yBGgqC_ouGxsTGrtJHmmAq5yZm7vvaeqgzmsmpoedLEdFoFvaspqDUmLuANBvFz8SBslVWrKUl9rWXCxgS4v5BQAKaA8p3Lncq89fLwQ%3D%3D&attredirects=0&d=1 is this the one published in 1934?
The first edition of the article was published in 1929 with one Foreword (序)written by 罗喜全。 The 2nd edition was published in 1934 and it started with 3 forwords; 1st foreword written by 曹灵谷,2nd foreword written by 张灵生and the 3rd foreword by 罗喜全.
The version you posted here is the 2nd edition with the 4th foreword written by the person who must have re-typed or converted the article into an electronic version. I spotted a number of typo errors in this posting.
The link given in your message to me pointed to a copy of the 1st version published in 1929.
I have in my possession a hard copy of the 2nd edition published in 1934.
I have not known much about the history of TJC but often heard that Paul Wei received important revelations while Barnabas fell due to his pride. Reading this journal (assuming it it is credible), Paul Wei does not sound to be reliable. Are his revelations credible then? What about the doctrines based on his revelations?
Thank you all! Look forward to reading your thoughts!
Danielslwu上贴的这一版是真耶稣教会南京总会在民国23年7月15日出的再版(第二版)。我存有此版的影印版(scanned version-无罗基洗亚的电子版序)。若有必要我可以把此文件寄给Danielslwu上贴于和不流以资佐证。我知道台湾总会存有此著作在民国18年10月出的第一版的电子版。 如有人想认真了解魏保罗的生平事迹,我也收集有魏保罗著的圣灵真见证书,张巴拿巴儿子为台湾总会编著的真耶稣教会历史,可以一起寄给Daniel上贴于此站,以供大家参考,了解教会的历史和早期教会里发生的是是非非。
既是"是是非非"還有必要去了解嗎?世上一切都有可能改變或廢去,唯有 神親自捨命與我們所立的約不會改變!唯有 神的愛, 神的話永遠常存!
說的不錯,是是非非的事情本來應該是過去就讓它過去,我們應該遵循神給我們立的不變的約,以愛神,愛自己,更要愛人如己,來榮耀主耶穌為愛我們而捨命。
但是若在這些是是非非中有的是認邪為聖,扶歪抑正,尊人鄙神的,而且這些背神之為還在今天的教會裡為所欲為,重形式,重禮儀卻藐視了神要我們走的道,做為一個真耶穌教會的信徒,我們是不是就應該順其所以然,不聞不問,不查其根源,不思改過改正,捧著一個“真”字就信以為真呢?
除非你不是真耶穌教會的信徒,你不可不要追根究底,去邪倡聖,除歪揚正,還神的真道于教會,這樣教會的“真”才會是實,才會是純。做為一個神的子民,真耶穌教會的信徒,我們不應該忽視或違反了神與我們立的不變的約,更不應該因為看到這些不當的作為而離棄教會,置之于不顧。
事情真相可以原諒 但歷史不可忘記 !
Dear Truth_seeker, The questions you asked were also some of the questions I had after reading the journal of Pr Barnabas (i like to call him a preacher because he was really preaching the gospel as guided by the Holy Spirit)! I am starting to think that Paul Wei was actually a false prophet (eg he preached that Lord Jesus would come again between 4-5 years time) and it is possible he wanted to break away from the church he was attending because he wanted to solicit money to help with his debt issue. The church he was attending had all the same doctrines as TJC except they baptised people facing upward. Therefore, in order to be different, Paul Wei started to preach that God told him to baptise facing downward and that he was baptised by God Himself. Was Paul Wei baptised in the name of our Lord Jesus as God instructed Barnabas Zhang in 1911? I don't think so! Is it according to the bible that Paul Wei was not baptised by another person? I don't think so either! Could there be a reason why Paul Wei died so early in 1919, two years after he started the 'correctional church of all nations'? (He didn't use the term 'TJC' in the beginning at all) Possibly! Mind you, i'm NOT saying it is wrong to baptise facing downward (TJC today likes to say 'head bowed' which is not exactly as 'face downward' either) and personally I found no biblical support for the necessity to baptise facing downward. Many can argue that Paul was not talking about physical likeness in Romans 6 and even if he was, Lord Jesus was buried facing upward, so which one should we follow? Again, I do not object to baptism facing downward but i've found it really hard to convince people. Would that affect TJC's status as the only true church? I don't think so and i believe if there is any other churches out there that believe in the same doctrines of salvation as we do,, then we can still be united under the same fold like how our church in Congo was started! The following questions are worth paying special attention to when reading the journal: 1. What exactly did God reveal to Barnabas Zhang and were they biblical? 2. What was the purpose of God's baptising Barnabas with the Holy Spirit? (in 1910) I've found the answers to these questions are very much in line with the Bible. Barnabas was called like Abraham to leave his own household and he believed by faith. He was baptised by the Holy Spirit for the same reason as the apostles so that he could preach the Gospel and witness for Christ. Also bear in mind that God revealed to him the need to baptise in the name of Jesus and to keep the 'Sabbath' (not 'Sabbath day') between 1911-1912, before God told him to start a church called "True Jesus Church" in 1912. I also wondered if God told him to keep the sacrament of foot-washing but couldn't find the answer in his journal. Does anyone know? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear 一滴水, I also found the other resources you mentioned on the internet and was planning on posting the book written by Barnabas' son about TJC history after people have read this journal. btw, the author of this electronic version of the journal says this version is the original version published in 1929. I also found another version on the internet: https://6d67404e-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/gopherlab/99sh...傳道記-張巴拿巴.doc?attachauth=ANoY7cpGJUJdSPrOIIb-aK3z-k8YWEdx-WIGVjzUaD7WwGqPT0Aus4XLcpR2KACccRkjh7mqWlvksHZ-FnLWICx9c08oPatvtAxPz-v_xMQEurVQHDJFxPlW6MWNuijk6AIgU9pmgM8dsYqhP6y-y0qGJwTqw5VrRLVSXro67duZaI1FGaYFvPnpGkoxczszjS-3PH_k0VNu-3VDwH435HVyqYFWENzKZ-8Axt7XBZxTDJfwg9R5bJPof7yBGgqC_ouGxsTGrtJHmmAq5yZm7vvaeqgzmsmpoedLEdFoFvaspqDUmLuANBvFz8SBslVWrKUl9rWXCxgS4v5BQAKaA8p3Lncq89fLwQ%3D%3D&attredirects=0&d=1 is this the one published in 1934?
Dear Daniel,
The first edition of the article was published in 1929 with one Foreword (序)written by 罗喜全。 The 2nd edition was published in 1934 and it started with 3 forwords; 1st foreword written by 曹灵谷,2nd foreword written by 张灵生and the 3rd foreword by 罗喜全.
The version you posted here is the 2nd edition with the 4th foreword written by the person who must have re-typed or converted the article into an electronic version. I spotted a number of typo errors in this posting.
The link given in your message to me pointed to a copy of the 1st version published in 1929.
I have in my possession a hard copy of the 2nd edition published in 1934.
教會告訴我們.張巴拿巴長老極其愛主.為主工作極其辛勞.神也賜極大能力.行了很多神跡.足跡遍及中國南方.我們南派包括台灣都是他傳的.由此"傳道記"亦可見其內容. 從小教會給我們的說法是他起驕傲.自高自大.指責其他代表均是魔鬼.說真教會是他所創.另立總部.發行角聲報.反抗大局.造成南北分裂.多次溝通無效.後來被教會除名.真教會南北議和.他帶著十八家"中華真耶穌教會"脫離.目前教會還在 聽說張巴拿巴長老後來甚至發瘋.穿黃袍戴龍冠.致函世界各國領袖. "傳道記"亦記載真教會是他所創 後來其子張石頭曾找謝順道長老要求翻案.被謝長老拒絕.謝長老的理由是他看到的是全面的資料.張石頭只看到他父親那邊的資料.是片面的. 後來聽說張巴拿巴長老的孫子曾來台灣.也在我們真教會聚會
魏保羅長老的資料在真教會傳教卅週年紀念刊中有很多記載.大體上教會是採用他的說法.真教會是由他開始.以萬國更正教為名.後來蒙主啟示為真耶穌教會. 張巴拿巴長老起初反對真教會.後來在曠野禱告.蒙主啟示後才相信真教會. 魏長老傳的都在大陸北方為主.可惜他早逝.他兒子魏以撒長老.孫子為雅各長老均為北派領袖.其實當年南北議和只是表面.北派甚至曾傳出非靠魏家不能得救之說.說為保羅長老是啟示錄之"東方天使".魏以撒是"大力天使".魏雅各是"收割天使".後來因為雅各長老預言聖靈停降.基督再臨都破功.北派受到重創
屬靈的長老.會說教會是他自己創立的.然後為爭奪這個名份.而使教會分裂嗎?本會兄姐當以為鑑.不可為一己之私.破壞教會 非本會信徒.不必因此得意.畢竟猶大就是耶穌選的.非耶穌之罪
大家都知道本會早期聖靈工作非常明顯.神蹟奇事一大堆.但大家是否知道.邪靈工作亦非常明顯.依不小心就會上當.如魏保羅長老的"主必在五年內再臨"就是.當時很多很有能力.行大神蹟信徒.長職叛離教會.另設教會.幾乎結果都是"人死教滅"收場. 我們看到外教會的"聖靈擊倒"不用稀奇.真教會才是他們的老祖宗.再卅週年紀念刊中.河南.山東.甚至傳到日本福岡.都有紀錄. 感謝主.教會獲得分辨諸靈恩賜.終究聖靈純一不雜.直到今日
小子心中是把撒但自存也放在一起才弄亂了時間.
另外楊長老的影響至少對小子迄今都在.小子未見過楊傳道.只因楊長老的緣故.就不想見到不好的結果
真正知道早期教會的歷史的人我不知道還有沒有,我們大多數人或者所有人知道的,不是聽聞就是讀教會遺留下來的早期教會刊物和教會書籍,而且有可能是片面的,是局部的,是不完整的。除非我們可以非常肯定聽到的,看到的是有憑有據,最好就不要妄下論斷,不但得罪了人,還得罪了神。
我本人沒見過張巴那巴,但是認識也見過他的兒子張石頭和他移民到台灣的孫子張帥福。對於張巴那巴和魏保羅的事情,我也有一些聽聞,但是就是因為是聽聞,無法佐證,就不作任何評論。
但是張石頭寫的歷史記卻不如小子同靈所述一般,張石頭有沒有找謝順道翻案我不知道,但是寫歷史記卻是他受當時聯總主席楊約翰長老所囑撰寫而成的,他並不是像小子同靈所說只看他父親那邊的資料,而是他特地居留在台灣一段不短的時間,只查看和參考了全部由台灣總會所供給的資料來撰寫的,因為張石頭本身有的資料很有限。張石頭在歷史記的自序裡交代得很清楚。
若能讀完這本歷史記,你也會發現張石頭用了很大了量由魏保羅撰寫的刊物的資料,並不是只有他們(張巴那巴)那一邊的資料。
在歷史記的末章也記錄了張石頭和謝長老的對質,到底是是還是非,我想最好就是信徒們親自讀一讀這本歷史記,自行批判。
若信徒有意願讀這本歷史記,我也建議不妨也讀魏保羅的聖靈真見證書,這樣不但對教會的歷史有進一步的理解,也對兩個教會的早期聖工有更深的了解,可能還會在之中看到一些是是非非的答案。
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